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everyone's level 20?
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Apandapion
CoPaP: Player Coordinator

Joined: 17 Jan 2005
Posts: 83
 everyone's level 20?

I had this strange idea for a server.

To balance out the difference between new characters and old characters, fill out the levels remaining between the character's level and 20 with a really weak class (wizard BAB, all poor saves, d6 hp, no feats or skill points awarded... we'll call this class "ooze" because it's close to the 3.5 ooze stats.).

So if you log in with a new first level character (say a fighter), the system makes you a (fighter 1/ooze 19). Or a wizard 1? When you gain, say, 10,000 xp, you can trade in one of your ooze levels for another class level. You use a special menu option to delevel you to level 1, add the new level of fighter, and then use a modified autobic to fill out to 20 with ooze levels. So you'd be a fighter 2/ooze 18.

A fighter 1 ooze 19 (disregarding stats and feat choices) would have +10 BAB, a +8 fort save, and +6 to will and ref saves. He'd have 10 hp, plus 19d6 hp from ooze levels, for about 76 hps.

There are some advantages to this:

1) Less distinction between newbie characters and powerful characters. This is the biggie. The D&D system isn't really designed to handle level 1 characters and level 30 characters anywhere near each other. A fighter 10 can smear a fighter 1 in a round. A fighter 10/ooze 10 has a slightly more difficult time against a fighter 1/ooze 19.

You could walk on with a level 1 whatever/ooze 19, and at the least you wouldn't die in one hit if you attended an event full of experienced characters.

2) You can make whatever levelling curve you want. A class level can be gained at any level from 1 to ~20,000 xp or so, because characters are level 20 and can have that much experience without levelling. (You have to have a custom leveller for this, but you need one anyway.) Since level ones are not so fragile, you can raise the necessary xp.

3) You could even hook to CoPaP, you'd just have to remove *all* ooze levels when a character portaled out (that doesn't even require an autobic) and restore the experience total they had when they arrived. They could store thier oozeworld xp on a token or in a DB for when they returned.

Disadvantages:

1) Every level-based spawner is broken. Hell, every level based everything is broken - it sees everyone as level 20 (or higher). Just steal a note from Catara's experience system and you'll be fine. You don't have to worry as much about people spawning ubermonsters at the wrong time when nobody has 4 hp.

2) You probably need all-new monsters. A level 20 character can kill a lot of kobolds even if 19 of his levels are fluff. But I think this is really an advantage in disguise - it can be hard to make compelling monsters for level one characters that arn't bugs, demihumans, or croprats (except swarmers. I love swarmers!). All of those newbie levels that nobody visits after level 5? Gone. You don't need them. (I guess you'd be 'catering to epics', but I'm not starting a conversation about *that*.)

3) An ooze 19/wizard 1 might as well not bother with spells. Well, not with offensive damage spells, anyway. 4 points of armor class never hurts.

4) You can only have 2 character classes below level 20 - and I have *no* idea what to do about offworlders with three classes that are below level 20. I guess no ooze levels for them. (Hopefully, if they have three classes already, they don't *need* them.)

Well, enough blue-skying for me.

PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 12:35 am
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Starslayer_D
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Joined: 25 Nov 2003
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Bad idea, sa you take away players right of self-determination as to what feats and skills their characters get, as well you remove the ability of people to get epic bonus feats once their chars hit 20 lvl'sina single class.

Actually, you will make the powerdifference between new and old characters even moe telling, as the new people lack 19 levels of build and experience fighting their chars against the difficult spawns a lvl 20 char gets.

PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2006 4:40 pm
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slave.of.emotions
Groundling


Joined: 25 Oct 2004
Posts: 106
Location: The European Union
Then it takes away from classes, a wizard would have to kill his spawns in melee even if he wants to stay a pure mage. He would be unable to beat any of lvl 20 spawn monsters with only lvl 1 magic.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2006 10:41 am
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Apandapion
CoPaP: Player Coordinator

Joined: 17 Jan 2005
Posts: 83
Starslayer_D wrote:
Bad idea, sa you take away players right of self-determination as to what feats and skills their characters get, as well you remove the ability of people to get epic bonus feats once their chars hit 20 lvl'sina single class.

Actually, you will make the powerdifference between new and old characters even moe telling, as the new people lack 19 levels of build and experience fighting their chars against the difficult spawns a lvl 20 char gets.


I didn't explain myself well enough.

When you first make your character, you make a level 1 character, picking all of your skills and feats. 19 levels of ooze are added.

When you are ready to level, 19 levels of ooze are taken away. You level as a first level character to a second level character, picking all of your feats as per normal. So, you've picked every aspect of your second level - for instance, if you were a dwarven fighter, you would have gotten your normal 3 feats by this point (first level, fighter first, fighter second.)

Then, to your second level character, 18 levels of ooze are added.

You still have full control (self-determination) over every aspect of your character. The way the autobic is used is turned around. Instead of adding the ECL levels as the first class and then adding your own class second, you add the levels you choose first and the levels of ooze second, so the levels of ooze can be taken away to level while leaving the levels you've picked alone.

steps:

You choose fighter 1
19 levels are ooze are added (you are level 20 and have 190,001 xp)
you gain 1,000 xp through play (191,000)
you choose an emote menu option to level.
You have 190,500 xp deducted (to take you back to level 1)
You have 500 xp added (so you are at level 2 ready to level)
You level to fighter 2.
You are given 18 levels of ooze back and jumped back to 190,001 xp.
you gain 2,000 xp through play (192,000)...

slave.of.emotions wrote:
Then it takes away from classes, a wizard would have to kill his spawns in melee even if he wants to stay a pure mage. He would be unable to beat any of lvl 20 spawn monsters with only lvl 1 magic.


Ah, here we have a simple difference of opinion. It becomes a different game at low levels under this system. I would not mind fighting in melee at low levels. It's better than crafting, crop rat hunting, or courier quests to get to level 2. You get to do something interesting (venture out into the world) instead of something that is, quite frankly, dull and repetitive. You'd have some leeway to go and adventure instead of hiding in the cities with your 4 hit points.

Roleplaying aside (which is fun at any level, if you can find people who are willing to give you the time of day when you know nothing about the world) if any commercial game launched with play similar to what a first level character on most copap worlds goes through if playing alone, it would get returned.

But I'm not saying anywhere should or must change. It would be a pain in the neck to add these changes to an existing world. I'm just saying an alternate way a new world could do things, which would provide a different, and I think more interesting, low level experience.

PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2006 12:19 pm
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