Question on CoPAP Psionics

papainhell · Post by **papainhell** » Sun Aug 21, 2005 9:52 pm

*not sure if this is the right place for this*

I am playing a psionic character, and fully intend to travel to other worlds as the portals become active. My problem is that I want to be sure that psionics will be useable on every server that I visit, will they?

Are psionics going to be a CoPaP standard?

teleri · Post by **teleri** » Sun Aug 21, 2005 11:46 pm

There are no Psionics on outlands at this time. To know more about it please read this thread on the outlands boards. http://www.greatring.net/modules.php?na ... 49d7e78351

Arkonswrath · Post by **Arkonswrath** » Mon Aug 22, 2005 3:38 am

Those who are already Psions will be able to use their powers, but the psion class is locked on Hala so those who don't have it, won't be able to take it while on Hala.

Gairus · Post by **Gairus** » Mon Aug 22, 2005 7:30 pm

Never ever or not without DM permission? (No, I don't want another one ark, just clarifying.)

Arkonswrath · Post by **Arkonswrath** » Mon Aug 22, 2005 8:41 pm

Never, ever.

The justification for this is simply that Ysgard is a Chaotic Plane. As such, natives to the plane would have too chaotic of a mind to warrent the control needed to be a psion as the class is now. On Hala, Psion is considered a PrC, and we only authorize PrCs to Hala natives on Hala.

Hala native = character created on Hala

Post by **Orleron** » Tue Aug 23, 2005 9:25 am

Strictly speaking from a code point of view, psionics are readily available for all CoPaP servers to import. As you can see, they use it to different extents.

JollyOrc · Post by **JollyOrc** » Tue Aug 23, 2005 10:24 am

Orleron wrote:Strictly speaking from a code point of view, psionics are readily available for all CoPaP servers to import.

where ? I'm still searching ...

teleri · Post by **teleri** » Tue Aug 23, 2005 10:40 am

JollyOrc wrote:
Orleron wrote:Strictly speaking from a code point of view, psionics are readily available for all CoPaP servers to import.
where ? I'm still searching ...

JO,

The psi code is in the copap hak I believe.

Post by **Themicles** » Tue Aug 23, 2005 4:37 pm

teleri wrote:
JollyOrc wrote:
Orleron wrote:Strictly speaking from a code point of view, psionics are readily available for all CoPaP servers to import.
where ? I'm still searching ...
JO,

The psi code is in the copap hak I believe.

No, we do not put scripts in the CoPaP Hak if we can help it.

dougnoel · Post by **dougnoel** » Wed Aug 24, 2005 1:37 pm

JO, Send Kinarr a PM on the Avlis boards. He can give you the updated code. It's fresh and shiny for 1.66.

JollyOrc · Post by **JollyOrc** » Wed Aug 24, 2005 3:25 pm

got it by now

*waves at Sindol*

papainhell · Post by **papainhell** » Tue Oct 11, 2005 11:09 am

Arkonswrath wrote:Those who are already Psions will be able to use their powers, but the psion class is locked on Hala so those who don't have it, won't be able to take it while on Hala.

Code: Select all

(No this is not directed at any specific world, I am just bringing up a valid concern)

Heh, getting back to this now

The above quote is what I thought would happen and I do not understand why it is not the way it should be. I thought the whole idea of CoPaP was to approve powers, feats, spells, races…. To be used CoPaP wide. I do understand Hala’s stance and I agree how they handled psionics, makes perfect sense.

Here is the scenario:
Psion- 1 fighter/ 22 psion travels to world where psionics does not exist i.e. psionics is not implemented.

Q- What do you have?
A- A lvl 1 fighter w/ extra HPs spawning epic NPCs
(Just does not seem right

)

What do the rest of the CoPaP folks think?

pincushionman · Post by **pincushionman** » Tue Oct 11, 2005 12:19 pm

papainhell wrote:
Arkonswrath wrote:Those who are already Psions will be able to use their powers, but the psion class is locked on Hala so those who don't have it, won't be able to take it while on Hala.
Code: Select all
(No this is not directed at any specific world, I am just bringing up a valid concern)  
...

Here is the scenario:
Psion- 1 fighter/ 22 psion travels to world where psionics does not exist i.e. psionics is not implemented.

Q- What do you have?
A- A lvl 1 fighter w/ extra HPs spawning epic NPCs
(Just does not seem right )

What do the rest of the CoPaP folks think?

Read. I've bolded the answers to those questions within the quote you quoted.

Any player who currently has Psion powers can use them on any COPAP server. The servers have the same class haks, otherwise you'd get invalid characters when you try to portal. And any character can always take new levels in any class he/she already has levels in (provided no alignment restrictions/etc.). All classes are IMPLEMENTED CoPaP-wide. Which is why new classes/feats/etc. would be a pain in the butt to implement, you have to get everyone to implement at the same time.

What is being done on specific servers is limiting choices on classes you don't already have. If you want to be a Psion, you need to take your first level of Psion on a server that has the class unlocked. Just like the PrC's, you can't take the first level of, say, Annihlator, whle you're in the Outlands, but if you're already an Annihlator, you can take the second (third, fourth, etc.) It is not that the class is not IMPLEMENTED, it is that it is LOCKED.

Your ftr1/psion22 will kick just as much ass on Hala as he would anywhere else, but if you just have ftr1, you can't become a ftr1/psion1 unless you go someplace else.

teleri · Post by **teleri** » Tue Oct 11, 2005 12:57 pm

pincushionman wrote:
papainhell wrote:
Arkonswrath wrote:Those who are already Psions will be able to use their powers, but the psion class is locked on Hala so those who don't have it, won't be able to take it while on Hala.
Code: Select all
(No this is not directed at any specific world, I am just bringing up a valid concern)  
...

Here is the scenario:
Psion- 1 fighter/ 22 psion travels to world where psionics does not exist i.e. psionics is not implemented.

Q- What do you have?
A- A lvl 1 fighter w/ extra HPs spawning epic NPCs
(Just does not seem right )

What do the rest of the CoPaP folks think?
Read. I've bolded the answers to those questions within the quote you quoted.

Any player who currently has Psion powers can use them on any COPAP server. The servers have the same class haks, otherwise you'd get invalid characters when you try to portal. And any character can always take new levels in any class he/she already has levels in (provided no alignment restrictions/etc.). All classes are IMPLEMENTED CoPaP-wide. Which is why new classes/feats/etc. would be a pain in the butt to implement, you have to get everyone to implement at the same time.

What is being done on specific servers is limiting choices on classes you don't already have. If you want to be a Psion, you need to take your first level of Psion on a server that has the class unlocked. Just like the PrC's, you can't take the first level of, say, Annihlator, whle you're in the Outlands, but if you're already an Annihlator, you can take the second (third, fourth, etc.) It is not that the class is not IMPLEMENTED, it is that it is LOCKED.

Your ftr1/psion22 will kick just as much ass on Hala as he would anywhere else, but if you just have ftr1, you can't become a ftr1/psion1 unless you go someplace else.

Actually Not quite true. There are NO psionics in outlands none at all no PC Psionics and no NPC psionics. So the above character would be a level 1 fighter and a level 22 Commoner effectivly in the outlands. In the outlands the class Psion is NOT implemented at all nor will it be till the abilities work properly for the planes.

Baron · Post by **Baron** » Tue Oct 11, 2005 8:07 pm

Ithilla will have full psion powers implemented when it becomes available

pincushionman · Post by **pincushionman** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 12:43 pm

It appears I came across as an angry dude in that last post...apologies for that. Now, though, it seems I am the one who is confused...

teleri wrote:...There are NO psionics in outlands none at all no PC Psionics and no NPC psionics. So the above character would be a level 1 fighter and a level 22 Commoner effectivly in the outlands. In the outlands the class Psion is NOT implemented at all nor will it be till the abilities work properly for the planes.

I assume you mean that the psionic powers are rendered ineffective (don't bother describing the means by which, that means nothing to me) but surely the class levels themselves are respected (and thus BAB, saves, skills, feats, etc?). Rather than "not implemented," which to me means, obviously, something different than that. The difference between the server saying "oh, you have Psion class levels...sucks to be you!" and the server saying "oh, you have < UNRECOGNIZED_CLASS > class levels...Invalid Character! Good-bye!"

I don't actually have any Psions, so this won't actually affect me...It's just I prefer to make sure I know what I'm talking about when I open my mouth, and I obviously didn't in the last post...

teleri · Post by **teleri** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 11:37 pm

pincushionman wrote:It appears I came across as an angry dude in that last post...apologies for that. Now, though, it seems I am the one who is confused...

I assume you mean that the psionic powers are rendered ineffective (don't bother describing the means by which, that means nothing to me) but surely the class levels themselves are respected (and thus BAB, saves, skills, feats, etc?). Rather than "not implemented," which to me means, obviously, something different than that. The difference between the server saying "oh, you have Psion class levels...sucks to be you!" and the server saying "oh, you have < UNRECOGNIZED_CLASS > class levels...Invalid Character! Good-bye!"

I don't actually have any Psions, so this won't actually affect me...It's just I prefer to make sure I know what I'm talking about when I open my mouth, and I obviously didn't in the last post...

Sorry I have been beating this dead horse on the outlands boards as well...and am slightly well tired of it actually. (:

The non technical discription is you log in and it goes ohh Psion *shrug* no PSP, no Powers ok have a nice day... The sever knows what a Psion is but there is no way to use any of the abilities.

JollyOrc · Post by **JollyOrc** » Thu Oct 13, 2005 2:50 am

teleri wrote:The non technical discription is you log in and it goes ohh Psion *shrug* no PSP, no Powers ok have a nice day...

I love this explanation. I'm tempted to disable Psion Powers on Catara just to justify stealing it...

Sindol · Post by **Sindol** » Thu Oct 13, 2005 3:15 am

JollyOrc wrote:
teleri wrote:The non technical discription is you log in and it goes ohh Psion *shrug* no PSP, no Powers ok have a nice day...
I love this explanation. I'm tempted to disable Psion Powers on Catara just to justify stealing it...

Easily done, by just not importing the scripts used by the psionics system. However, since I already imported them, it would mean removing all of them again. It would have been easier if you had thought of that before.

Psionics on Catara is at the moment the same as on Hala: it works fine, as long as you already have psionicist levels when you get there. You can't take psionicist levels on Catara unless you already have levels in it, or a DM unlocks it for you (which can be done if you meet some in game, in character requirements).

We are also still contemplating changing some powers to be more in line with Catara "fluff", just as we are considering changing some spells once we implement a full spellhook.

teleri · Post by **teleri** » Thu Oct 13, 2005 12:52 pm

JollyOrc wrote:
teleri wrote:The non technical discription is you log in and it goes ohh Psion *shrug* no PSP, no Powers ok have a nice day...
I love this explanation. I'm tempted to disable Psion Powers on Catara just to justify stealing it...

steal away... (:

Arkonswrath · Post by **Arkonswrath** » Thu Oct 13, 2005 6:09 pm

Update on this, due to recent changes in the way psionics works which have alleviated my discomfort with the class, and due to IC things that have occured on Hala. Hala now regards Psionics as a PrC which may be given to players who show good RP skills.

Fuzz · Post by **Fuzz** » Tue Oct 25, 2005 4:42 pm

Psionics are a core part of Planescape, so PPsionics being available on most of the worlds is a good possibility. It's just gonna take time, and depends on who runs the world. Don't hold your breath since the vast majority of players seem to absolutely hate psionics and think they are overpowered.

Arkonswrath · Post by **Arkonswrath** » Tue Oct 25, 2005 5:57 pm

An update to the psion thing i posted before... If you do decide you want to be a psion on Hala, and the PrC Manager agrees to give it to you... you are required to continue leveling in your primary class to a point where your Psions levels cannot be more than 5 levels higher than your base class... personally I dislike seeing level 1 monk/22 psions. This only applies for Hala, so what you do outside of Hala is up to you. I know other worlds do not agree with me on this.

papainhell · Post by **papainhell** » Tue Oct 25, 2005 7:18 pm

In reality the Psion class should be a selectable class from the start, it's a game engine thing with having to chose it as a PRC

so the 1 (insert class) / 22 psion is a given if you intended to be a psion from the start.

Fuzz · Post by **Fuzz** » Tue Oct 25, 2005 10:11 pm

Arkonswrath wrote:An update to the psion thing i posted before... If you do decide you want to be a psion on Hala, and the PrC Manager agrees to give it to you... you are required to continue leveling in your primary class to a point where your Psions levels cannot be more than 5 levels higher than your base class... personally I dislike seeing level 1 monk/22 psions. This only applies for Hala, so what you do outside of Hala is up to you. I know other worlds do not agree with me on this.

You could just reinstate the core PrC reqs for the Psion from Nathan's original setup, with the Concentration requirement, as well as Iron Will. Even if you don't change the 2da to reflect that, you can have a Hala-side directive for DMs to require Hala players to meet certain criteria for the PrC.