Are +3 weapons and glowsticks prestigious anymore?

[Daerthe]

First of all I wasn't talking about newbies, I was talking about lowbies. I define a lowbie as being about levels 6 to 12 now that we have 40 levels.

Next I never specified a monster type nor did I refer to static spawns. I know epic level characters who won't fight admantine golems. Any lowbie knowingly going to fight adamantine golems is definitely going to die. I am not even going to address Sereg. I would be overjoyed if they suddenly became extinct, as would very many other people I know. My specific point of reference was an event that took place where the party originally included one epic level character, several mid levels and one or two lowbies (lvl 9 or so). We weren't looking to be involved in an event, we were travelling somewhere to explore someplace most of us haven't been before when a DM decided to spawn a bunch of things that most of us couldn't touch. If there is absolutely zero fun level for the majority of the PCs there, then there is absolutely zero point in spawning uber monsters on them.

Epic PCs have become a fact of life, you can't avoid them. So to expect everyone but the epics to wander off when there is a DM event going on is silly. And to be even more specific, I am directly referring to long term quests that only seem to involve uber monsters that 90% of the players can't do any significant damage to without dying repeatedly in the course of things. I know I'm not aware of every existing plotline on Avlis or the other CoPaP worlds, but the ones I am aware of all involve large battles with monsters that most people can't fight with these buffs, nevermind without them. The majority of PCs in CoPaP aren't epic level last time I checked.

I'm all in favor of having some balance with these spells as they are overly long for the amount of improvement you get from them. However, if we are going to decrease the spells, either in duration or effectiveness, then some thought needs to be put into the creatures that are spawning or being DM spawned that folks can't harm without them.

As for the prestige of glowsticks, I don't see them as prestigious at all. I have one that I got as a gift from someone else. Having a glowstick doesn't automatically mean either that you RP well or that you got some good DM love. It could just mean that you have IC friends with extra gear they don't mind parting with or that your guild has a good armory. Of course if you have lots of IC friends that give you nice gear, it probably means you RP well.

[keikobad]

Thing is, it makes it so melees are basically worse than clerics (and sometimes mages) at meleeing.

Nope.

Sure, you can claim "party up with a high level mage/cleric", but why does that person need to party with YOU?

...

If Tiras buffs up Vence, Vence can take the first level of the LRC at 9th level.

You just answered your own question.

[Titanium Dragon]

Yeah, but Tiras doesn't need Vence to solo the first level of the LRC; Vence, on the other hand, most definitely needs Tiras to do so. Also, the first level of the LRC, even partied with an epic level character, gives roughly 2000 xp and 10,000 gp.

[Guest]

This wasn't about class balance, lets not go there TD.

[Pesky]

Isn't Tiras a lot higher level than Vence anyway, so why shouldn't he be able to solo the place better?

[Vanor]

We weren't looking to be involved in an event, we were travelling somewhere to explore someplace most of us haven't been before when a DM decided to spawn a bunch of things that most of us couldn't touch.

I have no idea what happened there, so I can't comment about that one event.

However myself I tend to spawn in NPC's based on the avg party lvl, not the highest. That means that normally the epic or even higher level PC's might not have much fun in the fight. IMO, that's just too bad for them. I'm not about to spawn a godly like dragon just because one PC can handel it. If the epic lvl PC wants a good fight, they should go places they can get one.

If there is absolutely zero fun level for the majority of the PCs there, then there is absolutely zero point in spawning uber monsters on them.

How much fun a group of PC's have in a given event, isn't the end all be all of the event. Not all events will be enjoyable for all people involved.

Going with a line of thought above... While I won't spawn in the godly dragon simply because one PC can deal with it. I won't stop from spawning it in, even if it means the rest of the party has to run or die, if there is a good reason for it. The fact that the rest of the PC's are hopefully outmatched doesn't matter in the least, if I have a good reason to bring the dragon out.

I am directly referring to long term quests that only seem to involve uber monsters that 90% of the players can't do any significant damage to without dying repeatedly in the course of things.

You seem to have a logical disconect here.

In order for a quest or storyline to run a long time, there must be a NPC behind it that 90% of the players can't do any damage to without dying. If the key NPC(s) are easy to take out, are something the majorty of the PC's out there can kill... Then the plot can't realisticly last very long. This isn't always in terms of just hp's, AC, and DR... There could be other reasons.

As for the prestige of glowsticks, I don't see them as prestigious at all.

There's two ways of looking at glowsticks and prestige IMO. One is does having one mean you should be looked up at? No not really, it doesn't prove you are some master RP'er or anything. Custom items are a bit closer to this... But even then not always.

However they do add prestige in a way, they set those who have them appart from everyone else. I know when I pull out Delen's bastard sword, people tend to look at him a bit differently then they did before he did, if they didn't know him.

[Orleron]

Within the Avlis Team, the thinking is similar to TD and Khaelindra's. We are not thinking of altering the plus schemes, although I personally wish Bioware never made this spell. But more likely we will be altering the duration to a turns/level basis, so you can't use it to make your weapon essentially a permanent +5. Before this spell, DM spawns were different. They were geared for characters who might only have a +3, as per the vision for Avlis/CoPaP. Now everyone's got a buffed-up plus 5 fucking weapon, which is NOT what was intended, at least for our worlds. But now that we got that stupid spell, we've gotta account for it a bit, but not before nerfing the duration.

How or why this affects class balance is not as important as the fact that it's making weapons of legendary status routinely. On CoPaP, a +5 weapon should be famous... it should have a name, and people should talk about it for miles around (in our case, for servers around). This spell screws that up.

[Daerthe]

I am directly referring to long term quests that only seem to involve uber monsters that 90% of the players can't do any significant damage to without dying repeatedly in the course of things.

You seem to have a logical disconect here.

In order for a quest or storyline to run a long time, there must be a NPC behind it that 90% of the players can't do any damage to without dying. If the key NPC(s) are easy to take out, are something the majorty of the PC's out there can kill... Then the plot can't realisticly last very long. This isn't always in terms of just hp's, AC, and DR... There could be other reasons.

Nope, not a disconnect. I wasn't talking about the boss NPC behind the plot. I was talking about the minions.

[Vanor]

I was talking about the minions.

Even then, there are going to be minions that the bulk of the characters can't touch, because without them the major NPC isn't going to be as much of a threat.

There needs to be powerful and even epic lvl minions from time to time.

However as I said elsewhere on this board, they shouldn't be the only things seen either.

[Gairus]

Another thing - don't forget that +3 ranged weapons haven't gotten any less rare and sought after. Not every ranged weapon user is an AA who can ignore the enchantment