CoPaP

Vanor wrote: You seem to have a logical disconect here.

In order for a quest or storyline to run a long time, there must be a NPC behind it that 90% of the players can't do any damage to without dying. If the key NPC(s) are easy to take out, are something the majorty of the PC's out there can kill... Then the plot can't realisticly last very long. This isn't always in terms of just hp's, AC, and DR... There could be other reasons.

I didn't want to further hijack that other thread that this quote came from, as it was talking about +3 weapons. What Vanor wrote here is true, but the problem is many low level PC's don't know how to get themselves involved in these type of ongoing, long term events. There is absolutely positively nothing wrong whatsoever with running long term events for the upper level folks, there should be stuff for them to do! However, long term stuff often makes a character feel more integrated and a part of the world, and I don't think that there's anything wrong with trying to get the low level folks to share in that, too. I don't think most low level people know how to get involved in ongoing plotlines when the opponent(s) is so powerful that they are 15 levels away from being able to survive one round with it.

All of those prestigious items are always going to end up in the same places.

Malathyre wrote:I don't think most low level people know how to get involved in ongoing plotlines when the opponent(s) is so powerful that they are 15 levels away from being able to survive one round with it.

Good point. I think there's two ways to deal with it.

One, is to give the lowbies something to do with in the plot. Like gather info, find minor items, fight less powerful minons of the Big Bad Guy... and the like. That way a low lvl PC can be involved in a major plot without being majorly outclassed. Of course the reward will offten match the difficulty, which means that low level PC's who take part in this part of an event still won't be getting major rewards.

Two, is to gear the ongoing quest in such a way, that lvl doesn't mean much. It's possible to setup a long involved plot, where melee ablity, or high lvl spells don't matter. The Big Bad Guy in this case isn't powerful due to his physical ablities, but rather untouchable in other ways. Maybe it's a council members child, or a council member himself. Maybe it's someone protected by a church who doesn't realize how bad the person really is. Or else it's someone who can't be touched because they're encased in a block of crystal, but can still effect things with their mind.

All of those prestigious items are always going to end up in the same places.

Not really... A long major quest shouldn't be finishing every day. So even though someone isn't high enough lvl to be there for the big finish, this time... They might next time.

Also, the reward someone gets is at least in part based on their level. We don't give out +3 glowsticks to lvl 10 PC's, and never will. For a couple reasons...

One it's unlikely they did something "epic" enough to warnt a reward of that level.
Two, those types of rewards are normally saved for people who have been playing on Avlis for a long time and have earned it with more then just that one plot.
Three, it sucks getting a reward that you can't use. Giving a +3 glowstick to a PC who can't use it for another 5 levels is just wrong IMO.

I like running long-term quests. Because I spend a lot of time trying to develop the NPC's and their background stories of how they're involved in this quest.

My most recent quest is based on a fanfic that I'm writing with Avlis. The NPC names that I use are all pretty similar to what that story is about.

I like this part of my quests, the story that is behind them. In close to 15 months DMing on Avlis, I've had two "plots" that I've ran for mage orders.

But in addition to that, I do other things for other PC's in a DM fashion and support.

As far as low-level getting involved in these plots, easy. Join a mage order, and they're involved immediately.

Yes, I'm probably the only one in Avlis that is mainly DMing only one type of character, the rest are not.

Long term plots are just my preference, from back in the PnP days where I go through a lot of trouble in making up a background story for my players.

As far as loot is concern, I think I dish out more loot in bags and remains of monsters than to the mages that I DM. But some PC's just don't bother to check.

I'm like choral in that I enjoy running long, involved plots for the most part. I try to get as many people involved as possible, but it's tough.

Vanor wrote:Two, is to gear the ongoing quest in such a way, that lvl doesn't mean much. It's possible to setup a long involved plot, where melee ablity, or high lvl spells don't matter.

Vanor's hit the nail of the head I think. Two things I've done in the past that worked were:

- make the plot a mystery. I ran this thing with these portals that PCs would find in the middle of nowhere. The portals were surrounded by four odd machines. Every now and again something would spill out of the portal, sometimes hostile, sometimes not. It really didn't matter what level you were, since the objective was to find out who was making these portals and why.

- make your 'big bad villain' unkillable. There was a villain who for IC reasons could not die, only be banished to another plane. If PCs were strong enough they could 'kill' him, but he'd just get right back up and keep on trucking. Here the objective was to figure out why this guy had cropped up and how to banish him again, not to defeat him in combat.

In other words, if combat is the side dish and not the main course of a long-term plot, then PCs of all levels can particiate equally.

As a DM I try to do things when I am DMing that players can't get when I'm not. Players can fight monsters without me being logged on, so why should I just sit there and spawn more for them? I'd rather entertain folks with some other type of challenge, one where combat is there simply to add tension and conflict.