CoPaP

dougnoel wrote:

teleri wrote:A PnP game with a fear aura requires a save every round same as in NWN so the odds of failure are the same.

Actually, dragon and mummy fear auras a 1/day in PnP. Same with a ghost's horrific appearance. NWN's implementation is sheer laziness. Basically, the aura goes off every round and everyone has to make a chaeck because who has made a check before isn't stored.

Not sure about 3rd edition rules but 2nd and 1st required that as long as you are in the aura which lasts rounds per level/HD or turns per level /HD you need to make a new save each round. So although they can only cast it once per day it requires a roll every round.

This is one of those things that many DM's kind of skip over and allow one save and keep going.

Uhmm.. Orleron, I fear you folks are misshandling criticals in PnP.
NWN doesn't reroll,, or I't have seen eery dmg numbers creep up smewhere in the countless battles I had while playing.

And the PnP rules don't say anything about repeatedly rechecking for crits.

You roll an attack roll. Your NATURAL roll falls within the thread range, you get to roll to confir the threat into a critical.
(Even though my longsword is +5, if I have no keen sword and no feat to improve my critical, my dice needs to showw 19 or 20 to be elegible for a threat roll).

If your attack roll was showing a number in the threat range of your weapon, you roll a dice to confirm your threat (by rolling above the foes AC, as if you made a normal attack roll), and make the hit into a crit. This is not an attack roll, though, but a threat confirmation roll, and thus even though the thret numbers come up again, doesn't allow you to check a third time.

I hope I was able to clarify the PnP rule here.

I don't have the books with me, but I'm pretty sure if you keep rolling those confirmation rolls in the threat range, that you can roll them over and over. Strangg?

Well, i looked at a prolonged combat-log, and even after rolling 20-19 (with a scimitar, so crit and crit), it stops. Meaning that in NWN you can never do more than a single crit. No infinite criticals in the combat system of the NWN-game.

One thing i am additionally wondering (yes, we're drifting, i know ): in PnP, if a special effect touch attack like a vampire's bash (level-drain), or a spider's bite (poison) or a magical touch attack (like the various rays) scores a critical, the special effect is also multiplied because of the critical. Is this also the case in NWN?

The additional critical rolls to increase damage is presented as one of the optional methods to handle critical hits in pnp. Also presented as an option is the rerolling of dice if a 1 or 20 is rolled subtracting 20 or adding 20 to the successive roll based on whether 1 or 20 is rolled until the dice comes up neither 1 or 20.

They aren't part of standard canonical d&d rules but are presented as options and the additional rolls tend to work very well in higher level campaigns.

Ahhh..

*shudders at thinking about a keen Scimitar weaponmaster rolling criticals on his primary attack*
Dice over 10+ on attack roll --> Confirmation roll 14 --> confirmation roll 12 confirmation roll 18 confirmation roll 15 confirmation roll 20...

Huzzah! killed that ancient enhanced findish dire red dragon with one blow.. DM.. hey.. why are you crying?

Or...
DM: Ed I thought I told you NOT to use Devasting Critical!!!!!
ED: I am not using a weapon that I get Devastating Critical, it just kept rerolling the "normal" critical for that weapon.
DM: Sheeesh, you are right, but 1680 hit points in one strike....ED please go back and use a weapon that gives you Devastating Critical, please that I can tolerate.
ED:*smiles*
DM:*sound of head banging on desk*

Orleron wrote:A 10th level fighter can take a cannon ball in the chest and be FINE. At least in 3rd edition, though the chances are very remote, that canon ball can roll a triple critical and take him out.

I thought that whole "keep rolling critical dice" thing was just a fixture on fire-arms that was added in one of the rules expansions. (something like flint-locks having criticals rolled until you missed the threat roll because in general it does a crappy amount of damage anyway.)

I know it doesn't happen in NWN, though.

They carry over there from the second edition firearms rules, where eg. wheellock pistols had 1d4 dmg, but kept rolling if 4's came up. That supposingly should simulate the penetration power/deadliness of bullets.

Orleron wrote:I don't have the books with me, but I'm pretty sure if you keep rolling those confirmation rolls in the threat range, that you can roll them over and over. Strangg?

No. You make your attack roll, if your roll hits the targets AC and is a crit threat depending on the weapons threat range (19-20 for a longsword for example), then you get to see if you actually crit. You roll again, you must hit the targets AC, if you do not it is a standard hit and you roll damage as normal. If you hit the targets AC or higher then it is a crit and you roll damage based on the weapons damage multiplyer.

That's why i always laugh at scimitar wielding crit specialists, they are less than useless. Yeah you can crit the shit out of goblins and kobolds, but if you fight anything with AC your just kidding yourself into thinking you are a badass.

Player "Whee a rolled a 10! that's a possible crit!"
DM: "Take your candy ass home bitch, your figting an Ancient Red, that doesn't possibly crit its big toe."


MERPS has an open ended crit system based on d100 (using 2d10 percentile dice) that is kind of fun. Of course characters don't last long in that system because a lvl 5 can kill a lvl 20 in one hit, in theory anyway.



~S

Strangg1 wrote: DM: "Take your candy ass home bitch, your figting an Ancient Red, that doesn't possibly crit its big toe."

Ugh... injured big toe could be a reallll downer...

A PnP critical miss system I use here is that if you roll a 1 on a skill check, save, or skill roll, you have to roll the roll again. If you succeed the second time, you simply fail. If you fail a second time, you provoke an attack of opportunity, like you would if you, say, drank a potion.

I find it works well. It's similar to the critical system, fast, uses a mechanic everyone understands (provoking an AoO), and emulates a fumble decently. Regardless if you were trying to climb a wall to get away from a ogre, resist a mind affecting spell, or attack a red dragon, getting AoOed is a pretty sensible thing to have happen if you fail badly.

It would be a fair thing to have happen to someone who's getting rained on by weak casters. Not that I think the NWN engine is likely to be flexible enough to implement it.