Gods-Mods-pvp. War of the heavens.

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Buggsy-guestversion

Gods-Mods-pvp. War of the heavens.

Post by Buggsy-guestversion »

I read articles of confederation, I like it, and I got additional ideas.

-Prime material planes can connect to any god-mods, but god-mods cannot connect to eachother.

-A god realm is the home of a particular god.

-Anyone can be a god, but any player can kill you and claim that realm. So you have to defend your realm.

-Each god realm has one god merchant that sells really high level items.

-Once you claim godhood you cant enter a prime material plane unless your followers (players) use a powerful and consequintly very expensive item to summon you. (in lots of AD and D stories) Otherwise you can only enter a prime material plane as a very weak level 1 dude.

-PVP is turned on, you can killanyone and anything. If your a good character and kill an evil player no problemo, but kill another good player and you get a litle more evil. Same with neutral players. If your evil you can killanything. To make up for the disparity of evil/good, evil gods have to purchase fantastic-items at 100% price instead of 50% the good gods have to pay.

-There are 3 types of god-merchants and have to be exactly the same in each mod. Good-god-merchants 50% price. Neutral-god-merchants 75% price. Evil-god-merchants 100% price. Chaotic-lawful-true are simply for roleplaying purposes.

-Gods depend on their followers (players) for money (donations), and players depend on the gods for powerful items. Anyone can be a spy from another god, or betrayers, roleplaying. If a follower becomes too powerful they may overthrow their god and claim godhood, so its up to the best interest of a god to not just throw powerful items at players randomly, less they be overthrowed.

The goal im looking for here is to provide a fluid-logical progression of the war between good and evil without forcing quests down players throats for no reason other then to level up.

So what do you think?
Buggsy-Guestversion

Post by Buggsy-Guestversion »

-Any player creating their own god-mod has to roleplay a god themselves and can only enter the world as a level 20 player of any type they wish.

-Prime material plane mods created by players can enter as a demi-god player at level 15.

-This is when the mod is created and approved by the articles of confederation. *whoever they may be, enter twilight zone music*
Buggsy-Guestversion

Post by Buggsy-Guestversion »

What I meant is the followers of a particular god have to use a very powerful/expensive device (designed and purchased by said god) to open a gate between the temple and the god-realm they worship. Otherwise the god cant go into the prime material planes other then as a normal character.

To stop this from happening, enemies of that god, followers and stuff have to get the device. :) Just like in the ADD stories.
Orleron
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Post by Orleron »

Thanks for the ideas.

There are already mechanisms in some CoPaP worlds for player characters to become gods. It has happened at least once so far that I know. However, there is no scripting or modding involved with it. It is completely DM-driven and VERY VERY rare, i.e. not any player can do it or would be allowed to do it if they attempted it. Figure that thousands of people play or have played CoPaP and maybe one has made it to godhood, and that basically took a direct order from me to my own Avlis staff.

The reasoning behind this is that many of the ideas you mention would encourage huge powergaming and would upset the balance of play that we have here. There's an old rule: no matter how hard you make it for someone to accomplish a goal, MORE people will accomplish it than you think, and eventually there will be TOO many of them that do it.

Games like Ultima Online and Everquest are basically living examples of this, and IMHO are no longer fun to play because of it.

Players in CoPaP have limits. They can get immortality or godhood, sure. But not *everyone* can. Each player will wind up with its own destiny, and the large part of them will just be uber mortals at best.
Avlis: http://www.avlis.org

"My name is Orleron...a dungeonmaster...two years ago I got shot through a game client...I'm in a distant part of the internet aboard these servers of escaped mental patients...my players. I've made enemies, stupid, and annoying...now all I want to do is make CoPaP a reality, to warn Earth...Look inward(to your monitor) and share the newbies I've seen..."
Aloro
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Post by Aloro »

Orleron wrote:There are already mechanisms in some CoPaP worlds for player characters to become gods. It has happened at least once so far that I know.
And look what kind of wussy namby-pamby God he turned out to be, too. Peace and Healing? Feh.

In an environment like CoPaP, making PCs into gods isn't really viable unless they're retired when it happens. That was the case with my own PC, Cha'reth - when he ascended, I stopped playing him, and in fact manually deleted him from the servervault so I wouldn't log on by mistake.

Having active characters take on the power and attributes of gods is, to be blunt, laden with so many perils and problems that I don't even want to consider it. :)

- Aloro
"Time's been between us, a means to an end;
God it's good to be here walkin' together, my friend."
- Stevie Ray Vaughan
choraldances
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Post by choraldances »

Aloro wrote:
Orleron wrote:There are already mechanisms in some CoPaP worlds for player characters to become gods. It has happened at least once so far that I know.
And look what kind of wussy namby-pamby God he turned out to be, too. Peace and Healing? Feh.
He sure is.

*begins to have regrets running that quest*

:lol:
Choraldances - Senior DM of Avlis, Project Administrator of Miras - Hades, DM of Outlands.
Buggsy-Guestversion

Post by Buggsy-Guestversion »

I meant gods as just high level characters. Levels 20-40, that what you mean?
Aloro
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Post by Aloro »

Buggsy-Guestversion wrote:I meant gods as just high level characters. Levels 20-40, that what you mean?
Those are called "epic characters". Gods are entities that derive power from worship, and can offer their followers divine magics. PCs can be epic characters, which is strictly a matter of earning enough experience to progress to that point. Epic characters are qualitatively no different from other characters - it's a matter of quantity of skills and powers (and hit points), as it were. Gods are qualititatively different from PCs - they have completely different strengths, weaknesses, and goals. They are also immortal, generally able to manifest themselves physically in multiple places at once, have limited omniscience (related to their spheres of interest), etc. PCs cannot be Gods - it really would not work at all. Any PC who manages to somehow ascend to Godhood will no longer be a PC.

It's important to define terms. You're using the word "God" differently here than the rest of us, it seems. :)

- Aloro
"Time's been between us, a means to an end;
God it's good to be here walkin' together, my friend."
- Stevie Ray Vaughan
Midknight
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Post by Midknight »

Most PC's who are god's usually end up as DM's though... so... close enough? :P

Like Orleron said, CoPaP is RP centric - it's not a PvP type of thing.
Aloro
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Post by Aloro »

Midknight wrote:Most PC's who are god's usually end up as DM's though... so... close enough? :P

Like Orleron said, CoPaP is RP centric - it's not a PvP type of thing.
No PCs are gods in CoPaP. That's where the confusion is coming from.

One character (Cha'reth), who used to be a PC, is now a god. He's been retired as a PC though. And yes, I became a DM at the time Cha'reth ascended, though I was already on the Avlis Team. :)

- Aloro
"Time's been between us, a means to an end;
God it's good to be here walkin' together, my friend."
- Stevie Ray Vaughan
Buggsy---

Post by Buggsy--- »

"The reasoning behind this is that many of the ideas you mention would encourage huge powergaming and would upset the balance of play that we have here. There's an old rule: no matter how hard you make it for someone to accomplish a goal, MORE people will accomplish it than you think, and eventually there will be TOO many of them that do it."


I understand exactly what you mean, I played too many games to be healthy. However, nomatter what anyone does, players will always strive to get to the highest level, as fast as possible. And I dont think anything can change that except more death. And PvP would probably mean more death, and more loss of experience points, sooo....

I dont think DM controlled roleplaying works. I tried it, created a character called "Tasslehoff Burrfoot" in the Dragonlance MODULE, and kept getting PK'ed for some reason. Dont know WHY, I was just roleplaying the character. I dont think 100% roleplaying will work.

The ability to take real estate from other players, and controlling real estate (PvP), if mechanisms are in place, would automatically create goals/quests/errrr without having to overburden a DM with the minutea of running an entire realm. A DM could be free to do larger things.



Wastelands (Prime material)
Farmland (Prime material)
Town (Prime material)
Castle (Prime material)
Demi-God realm (Haunted forests, shapechanger lairs)
Afterlife realms (Hells and heaven)

Each one more difficult to control then the previous, and controlled by a player.
buggsy-

Post by buggsy- »

control being: the access to a merchant selling powerful items.
Guest

Post by Guest »

for example, I want to create a level 2 prime material plane module. I would want it to be a "thieves guild". I would want it to be evil. So the only NPC's I could put in would be level 2 evil NPC's. Probably just guards. And in a not so accessible area, and guarded, I would need to place a level 2 merchant selling items at 100% cost (evil), and probably put things in there that would mirror what a thieves guild would have like lockpicks and traps. Since it was level 2, just for arguements sake the merchant couldnt sell anything higher then 5,000 gold.

Level 1 prime material (500 gold)
Level 2 prime material (5,000 gold)
Level 3 prime material (10,000 gold)
Level 4 prime material (15,000 gold)
Demi-god (20,000 gold)
After-life (no limits)

Im not sure how NPC's could be worked out.


But basically, since there would be only 1 merchant, then there could be only one person buying at that time. I dont know how someone could defend that spot where the merchant is other then using traps. But this would allow goals for the players, and a definate need for PvP, teaming up, forming alliances, and automatically put in a system of vassals/leige's.

Each module would have to connect to another, Leige and Vassal. A level 2 would have to be between a level 1 and level 3 module.
Zelle
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Post by Zelle »

Well, frankly, I think you are totally missing the whole point and feel of CoPaP.

My first advice to you is to PLAY for at least a few months to get an idea of the levels of things that are aimed for. Because right now, I look at your suggestions for uberness, and wonder "what the heck's he smoking, and where can I get some."

It's not uber compared to what's out there in NWN, but it's way off scale for for CoPaP. Recently, we temporarily shut some portals between worlds because it was felt that too many "uber" items were getting out. And you are suggesting we add MORE uberness..

To give an idea what I am talking about: you simply cannot buy +2 anything in a shop. Some of the more powerful items you can buy are a 5/- bludgeioning resist belt, and an amulet of poison/disease immunity. What exactly are you planning to sell with an "no cap" shop?

The problem with your "one person buying at a time" idea is that it's extremely exploitable. Someone can buy what they want, then "step down" and run off with their new l33t items, or go sell them to someone else.

Basing a group of servers around how cool the shops are is definately NOT a CoPaP idea.
I dont think DM controlled roleplaying works. I tried it, created a character called "Tasslehoff Burrfoot" in the Dragonlance MODULE, and kept getting PK'ed for some reason. Dont know WHY, I was just roleplaying the character. I dont think 100% roleplaying will work.
Er, no offense, but I'd kill you repeatedly too. I think that was the DM's way of saying "be original and play someone NOT in the books, you twink." Just like an elf named Legolas would get griefed beyond belief in CoPaP. We have a "no stupid names" rule. I wouldn't doubt if they had Tasslehoff as a DM avatar, seeing as he's a main DL character.
I understand exactly what you mean, I played too many games to be healthy. However, nomatter what anyone does, players will always strive to get to the highest level, as fast as possible. And I dont think anything can change that except more death. And PvP would probably mean more death, and more loss of experience points, sooo....
Some players, yes. And guess what. Those players get no DM love having exhibited that they are powergamers. We don't want them, and we don't like them. Hell I heard of a character that has been level 1 for a YEAR. So no, not EVERYONE will strive to be godlike. Our highest level characters are currently 32-33, I believe. And that's after playing a year and a half or so.
The ability to take real estate from other players, and controlling real estate (PvP), if mechanisms are in place, would automatically create goals/quests/errrr without having to overburden a DM with the minutea of running an entire realm. A DM could be free to do larger things.
We have alot of DMs. And we get more every week. People who WANT to run quests and control NPCs. No it's not a 1/1 ratio, and there's not ALWAYS a DM around either. But hey, people seem to RP by chatting with others just fine. And if you do it well, and a DM IS watching, you get a "cookie" for roleplaying well. Which is what is ENCOURAGED in CoPaP.

...


Like I said. Play awhile. Get the feel for the place. Your ideas are good, but definately not in the spirit of CoPaP.
Sindol
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Post by Sindol »

Zelle wrote:
I dont think DM controlled roleplaying works. I tried it, created a character called "Tasslehoff Burrfoot" in the Dragonlance MODULE, and kept getting PK'ed for some reason. Dont know WHY, I was just roleplaying the character. I dont think 100% roleplaying will work.
Er, no offense, but I'd kill you repeatedly too. I think that was the DM's way of saying "be original and play someone NOT in the books, you twink." Just like an elf named Legolas would get griefed beyond belief in CoPaP. We have a "no stupid names" rule. I wouldn't doubt if they had Tasslehoff as a DM avatar, seeing as he's a main DL character.
Killing is not a solution imho, but on Avlis you would be told by a DM to remake the character with a name that is not directly violating the rules. Now Avlis is not dragonlance setting, but even if it were that would be against the rules. If you have the right to create a character that someone else already thought up, gave shape and form, background and intention, then everyone has the right to do so. All rules should apply to all players.

So let's suppose for an instant that we'd allow you to make a character known from literature. We'd soon have a server full of Aragorns, Tasslehoffs, Gandalfs, Drizzts and other ripped off characters. What's more: these characters would claim to be the real original specimen probably and would be very surprised to walk into other characters named the same and pretending to be the same orignal specimen.... now that's what I call not working.

RP is about using your own imagination. To shape your own character in a world that's full of original ideas. True, some worlds are based on books and existing settings from literature. And perhaps you will find it enjoyable to play a kender in a dragonlance world, but then why not play your kender, instead of someone else's kender?
So much fun,
yet so little time to enjoy it.
- Sindol
Guest

Post by Guest »

I got PK'ed cause peoples belongings kept falling into my posessions on accident, nobody but the DM knew who I was. DM thought it was funny. He got tired of ressurecting me, so I gave up.
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