What worlds are currently linked?

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Anastase
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What worlds are currently linked?

Post by Anastase » Tue Nov 15, 2005 9:15 am

Greetings all :)

For the last week I've been playing a character on Avlis, and I've really been enjoying myself there. I've also tried out Hala during some down time, and I am very interested in some of the other worlds of the CoPaP I've read about. The fact that these worlds allow travel between them really inspired my imagination for some wonderful roleplaying opportunities.

I had a few questions if anyone has a bit of time to answer...

Is the Outlands server going to have a link to all CoPaP worlds, and will these links be permanent or plot driven (temporary and only connected to quests)? Will these links be available to anyone, or will characters need to solve some type of quest to use them? And finally, which worlds are linked at this time, and for the links that aren't up is there any ETA on when they will be?

I've been searching the CoPaP website and forums, as well as the individual PW forums to try and find all these answers and I've not been able to find anything definite, so my apologies if these are posted and I missed them. Also, I understand everyone working on these projects are probably very busy, so no rush in answering any of this. I'm just curious as I'd like to enjoy everything the CoPaP has to offer ~smiles~

Orleron
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Post by Orleron » Tue Nov 15, 2005 10:29 am

Outlands is going to be very important for CoPaP's linking scheme. Currently, its leader is having a pretty hard time in RL with respect to life itself and hardware problems on the machines running Outlands. However, if and when things turn around for him, you should see CoPaP coming out of its current lull. 3 things will need to happen with Outlands:

1) They'll need to get a reliable online time

2) teleri will send other CoPaP worlds some code that governs magic item travel and money exchanges between worlds.

3) The worlds that link up with Outlands will need to implement this software and turn on the links. (Turning on the links can be done pretty fast. Avlis is prepared to do it as soon as it gets the software for money/item travel.)


There are still worlds that are linked. Avlis has a live link to Tairis which has been working fine for a long while now. I believe that Hala and Glantri of Mystara are still linked and working fine, though Mystara's staff is basically MIA and doesn't seem to be doing anything with the server these days, except turning it on when it crashes. I also think that Grey Wastes and Hala are either linked or about to be linked, and Abyss and Grey Wastes should be working on something too.

I've been out of the loop for a while on the CoPaP links lately, but this is my guess.
Avlis: http://www.avlis.org

"My name is Orleron...a dungeonmaster...two years ago I got shot through a game client...I'm in a distant part of the internet aboard these servers of escaped mental patients...my players. I've made enemies, stupid, and annoying...now all I want to do is make CoPaP a reality, to warn Earth...Look inward(to your monitor) and share the newbies I've seen..."

Anastase
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Post by Anastase » Tue Nov 15, 2005 10:55 am

Thank you so much for that answer Orleron, I know what a busy server Avlis is, and I imagine running that as well as accepting the applications for CoPaP (I read somewhere you are doing that?) keeps you very busy. That you would take time to answer this is very appreciated :)

I am fine with waiting, I perfectly understand the real life issues. There's also much on Avlis to keep me busy until such a time as more worlds are linked, that's for sure :lol: Now I'll have to get in game and see if I can find out more information about this Tairis link ~grins~

Orleron
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Post by Orleron » Tue Nov 15, 2005 11:10 am

No problem. Yes, I am currently the only one reviewing CoPaP player applications, but it's not that bad. In this day and age we only get about 5 to 10 per day, mainly because I haven't been pushing Avlis/CoPaP and I haven't seen much advertisement from the other worlds online either.
Avlis: http://www.avlis.org

"My name is Orleron...a dungeonmaster...two years ago I got shot through a game client...I'm in a distant part of the internet aboard these servers of escaped mental patients...my players. I've made enemies, stupid, and annoying...now all I want to do is make CoPaP a reality, to warn Earth...Look inward(to your monitor) and share the newbies I've seen..."

Arkonswrath
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Post by Arkonswrath » Tue Nov 15, 2005 4:13 pm

Currently, Hala is linked with Grey Wastes (hades) and is working on the link to Arkas (the Lost Isle) My vision for Hala is to be nearly as important for CoPaP as Outlands. Realizing that not everyone is going to want to have to go through one server or another to get to other servers that they like, we have retaken on the Infinate Staircase idea that Hala used years ago. We have rebuilt the staircase and with it have many many areas where links to other primes/planes will be possible. This will also work to give people another way of travelling the servers in the event that Outlands goes down. And if Hala goes down, Outlands will be there, so it should help the stranded effect when the "gate world" goes down.

teleri
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Post by teleri » Tue Nov 15, 2005 5:08 pm

I am back up the hardware is working fine and the connection is good. Last bit is that my CD 3 is scratched and I have to reinstall but no install till I can find a replacement CD... Which no one sells in my area I have on e ordered from Amazon and am waiting for its arrival now.
Cheers,
teleri

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Post by papainhell » Thu Nov 17, 2005 7:24 pm

Arkonswrath wrote:Currently, Hala is linked with Grey Wastes (hades) and is working on the link to Arkas (the Lost Isle) My vision for Hala is to be nearly as important for CoPaP as Outlands. Realizing that not everyone is going to want to have to go through one server or another to get to other servers that they like, we have retaken on the Infinate Staircase idea that Hala used years ago. We have rebuilt the staircase and with it have many many areas where links to other primes/planes will be possible. This will also work to give people another way of travelling the servers in the event that Outlands goes down. And if Hala goes down, Outlands will be there, so it should help the stranded effect when the "gate world" goes down.
Yeah :mrgreen:

Good to know Hala is steping up, can't wait to get out and sight see again. It used to be sooo much fun. Now there is whole generation of players who have no clue what traveling to other worlds is like, or that we were even able to do it at one time.

slave.of.emotions
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Post by slave.of.emotions » Mon Nov 21, 2005 5:02 am

teleri wrote:I am back up the hardware is working fine and the connection is good. Last bit is that my CD 3 is scratched and I have to reinstall but no install till I can find a replacement CD... Which no one sells in my area I have on e ordered from Amazon and am waiting for its arrival now.
I recall that it was possible to download NWN from somewhere... it was meant as a service for linux users since the install software copyright contains that those .cab files can be unpacked only on windows..... or some like that.

EDIT: ah found it: http://nwn.bioware.com/downloads/linuxc ... lininstall there are 3 host links.
Last edited by slave.of.emotions on Mon Nov 21, 2005 5:13 am, edited 2 times in total.
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slave.of.emotions
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Post by slave.of.emotions » Mon Nov 21, 2005 5:11 am

Yeah :mrgreen:

Good to know Hala is steping up, can't wait to get out and sight see again. It used to be sooo much fun. Now there is whole generation of players who have no clue what traveling to other worlds is like, or that we were even able to do it at one time.
I wonder how many players actually left after a half year link dead, the cool thing about COPAP was after all the links between words and it was unique in whole NWN... there are many single servers out there similar to the servers within COPAP, perhaps excapt for outer plane servers, it was a big atraction in my opinion, and at least for me a reason why i started playing here at all.
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Orleron
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Post by Orleron » Mon Nov 21, 2005 9:43 am

I've been trying to get into a discussion about this issue for a while now, so this looks like a good opportunity.

When I started this organization, I knew it would be hard. I knew it would be tough to get standardized systems, mainly, and to standardize the roleplay and culture a bit. Turns out that part was not as hard as I expected, though it wasn't easy and is still a bit of an issue even today. What turned out to be HARDER was dealing with human laziness and human nature, coupled with real life.

CoPaP is still a great idea and I still think it's not going to go away any time soon. The problem is that most worlds lack ambition. Some lack talent. Others just plain old don't care, and some of the rest are just leaching.

I'll explain. Out of every 10 or so worlds that joins as a World In Progress, maybe one will actually link up. Even those that link often do not have the ability to figure out VaultSTER enough to get a reliable link going.... so they futz around with the thing indefinitely. Sometimes that may be on purpose because after being here a while they become afraid to link.

Most other worlds just fade away. People do not understand just how tough it is to start and run a PW. So they do it and they eventually drop it. That happens to most worlds that join us. They have great visions, but no followthrough. Others actually get their world running, but instead of linking they insist on "finishing" the world, which of course never happens because a world can never actually be "finished".

The current lull generally deals with the real life problems of some world leaders. These people are experiencing some unfortunate events, and are not to be blamed, but this still has an effect on CoPaP as a whole. When linked worlds go down or they are unable to get important systems running because the code has not been disseminated yet, it affects the whole organization.

In the early days, I felt I was on top of this, and it was a helluva lot of work. I had to constantly get onto my Avlis staff members to keep the system erf's updated and then I had to constantly make sure that the CoPaP worlds had ftp access to the erfs when half of them didn't even know what ftp was or were not savvy enough to get it working. Nowadays, the erf updates have gone by the wayside. I was also on top of people for linking. Granted, most of the worlds were either not serious about linking or were not competent enough to link, but I still checked up on them and got them involved. The worlds that are linked today are partly linked because I did this and they responded to it.

I really don't have the energy to do this kind of thing anymore for CoPaP, which is why I haven't been. The community is still here but there are fewer people playing NWN every day and once NWN2 comes out I really don't know what will happen. My own server is functioning fine by itself, and I'm running that one ok, but if CoPaP is to go anywhere in the future, it probably needs someone capable of taking the reigns and changing it a bit.

For one thing, it's probably too decentralized. It probably needs to run more like a Union than a Confederation. There needs to be someone in charge with actual power to do something and there needs to be a whole crew of people that does nothing but makes sure all the worlds get all the systems in place and all the erf's and zero mods are working right. A lot of that is boring work and no one has ever really wanted to do it.
Avlis: http://www.avlis.org

"My name is Orleron...a dungeonmaster...two years ago I got shot through a game client...I'm in a distant part of the internet aboard these servers of escaped mental patients...my players. I've made enemies, stupid, and annoying...now all I want to do is make CoPaP a reality, to warn Earth...Look inward(to your monitor) and share the newbies I've seen..."

Apandapion
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Post by Apandapion » Tue Nov 22, 2005 12:22 am

I've always felt that if you try to pressure or force people into doing things, then one day they quit doing things. In an all-volunteer operation, it has to stay fun. The less fun it is, the lower the retention rate. That is why I make a horrible volunteer - very few things stay fun for me in the long term, and the things that do (wine women and song) arn't really services that CoPaP requires.

I wrote another paragraph or three and read it and it was all a not-so-well-disguised thread hijack. And then I wrote a couple more paragraphs and realized that, as a lousy volunteer, I'm really not qualified to comment. So this post has been reduced to a stub post, where I tell you that I thought about these issues but failed to come up with anything useful to say. I'm going to throw in that I appreciate everything everyone has done, even if some things didn't work out.

Maybe something useful tomorrow.

Apandapion
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Post by Apandapion » Tue Dec 20, 2005 5:07 pm

Orleron wrote:I've been trying to get into a discussion about this issue for a while now, so this looks like a good opportunity.

When I started this organization, I knew it would be hard. I knew it would be tough to get standardized systems, mainly, and to standardize the roleplay and culture a bit. Turns out that part was not as hard as I expected, though it wasn't easy and is still a bit of an issue even today. What turned out to be HARDER was dealing with human laziness and human nature, coupled with real life.

CoPaP is still a great idea and I still think it's not going to go away any time soon. The problem is that most worlds lack ambition. Some lack talent. Others just plain old don't care, and some of the rest are just leaching.

I'll explain. Out of every 10 or so worlds that joins as a World In Progress, maybe one will actually link up. Even those that link often do not have the ability to figure out VaultSTER enough to get a reliable link going.... so they futz around with the thing indefinitely. Sometimes that may be on purpose because after being here a while they become afraid to link.

Most other worlds just fade away. People do not understand just how tough it is to start and run a PW. So they do it and they eventually drop it. That happens to most worlds that join us. They have great visions, but no followthrough. Others actually get their world running, but instead of linking they insist on "finishing" the world, which of course never happens because a world can never actually be "finished".
Last post on this thread was a month ago, so I guess I've been thinking about this for the last month, and in a slightly different context for longer than that. It lept into my head at work today.

I see from a lot of worlds, "We'll be up when we have it all !perfect!". It seems to be a common vein running, perhaps because the worlds have such excellent competition. But Avlis, one of the lead CoPaP worlds, runs quite a bit against this philosophy. What did Avlis do when the Wildspace server ended up under thier jurisdiction? Put it up - within a week, no less - to get people thinking about it and working on it.

I think these kinds of early "come-look-see" launches get people enthusiastic about things, and they often sign up, join the team, and do some work. If your world grows up in an isolated ivory tower, you never get this kind of hop-on-board attention.

I started thinking today that maybe new worlds have too much freedom. They have 15 different things to consider and 30 different decisions to make, and they never wrap them up all into a usable form. New worlds should perhaps be given full freedom in a wide range of areas... storyline, world content, monsters, graphical hacks, perhaps races, and so forth. But perhaps CoPaP should retain authority over scripts, the persistance engines, and so forth - the technical areas.

This common base would let worlds link easier, and it would also let new worlds focus on story, content, and DMs and relax on the technical details where staff is hard to come by. It would aid early launches and links, and help young worlds get traction on the road to success.

And after a server has been up 1 year and has at least 1 link to the CoPaP universe? All of these restrictions go away. After you've made it this far, you can do whatever you want within the limits of the current copap charter. Forcing new worlds to wear training wheels for a while may seem a bit harsh, but it would help people get started with what you really need (space and DMs)... and if you can't deal with a year wait to put in your custom shiaz, you didn't really have the long term outlook to put up a server anyway.

Human nature would be a less onerous burden if you encouraged (forced, really) people not to bite off more they can chew. Give them what they need to start, encourage them to get started, and once they *are* started, they can reach for the stars. But until that day, there should be a strong emphasis on the basics.

It seems that CoPaP gives a lot but asks very little of new worlds. Maybe it's time to ask for something, even if that something is just a limited scope until your world is really moving.

Themicles
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Post by Themicles » Tue Dec 20, 2005 5:14 pm

Things have discussed very recently, internally.

The CoPaP is not dead... and our current concern is the opposite of what our previous problem was. Before, we were concerned over the lack of links. Now we're wondering just how many link plots can be run at once. ;)

Also, if you haven't noticed, I've been updating the website. So far I've updated the Downloads page, and the NWNX information. The player application is getting attacked next, as well as World Contacts. And I have a plan for the member worlds list, that'll make each world's status a bit more clear.
"A wise man does not dwell on his past. He learns from it, he grows from it, and then moves ahead into his future." -me

Apandapion
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Post by Apandapion » Tue Dec 20, 2005 5:33 pm

Themicles wrote:Things have discussed very recently, internally.

The CoPaP is not dead... and our current concern is the opposite of what our previous problem was. Before, we were concerned over the lack of links. Now we're wondering just how many link plots can be run at once. ;)

Also, if you haven't noticed, I've been updating the website. So far I've updated the Downloads page, and the NWNX information. The player application is getting attacked next, as well as World Contacts. And I have a plan for the member worlds list, that'll make each world's status a bit more clear.
Oh, I'm not saying that you are doing nothing. Quite the contrary. As a systems designer, I know exactly how much work all of this is, and making all of CoPaP go borders on the impossible. (Well, I would have bet hard money that it was impossible. And lost.) I just have been thinking about Orl's open-ended request for comments for quite some time, and I thought I'd share.

papainhell
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Post by papainhell » Tue Dec 20, 2005 5:52 pm

I just wish the link to Hala was re established.

At least players would be able to travel a bit through Hala's links.

Drysh
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Post by Drysh » Wed Dec 21, 2005 6:54 am

Could someone please update which links are running? I know it's an IC thing to learn about portals, but there should be some OOC information if there is a portal... Please!

Signed: A fanatic CoPaP traveller.
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Themicles
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Post by Themicles » Wed Dec 21, 2005 7:56 am

Drysh wrote:Could someone please update which links are running? I know it's an IC thing to learn about portals, but there should be some OOC information if there is a portal... Please!

Signed: A fanatic CoPaP traveller.
I already commented on this.
Themicles wrote:And I have a plan for the member worlds list, that'll make each world's status a bit more clear.
"A wise man does not dwell on his past. He learns from it, he grows from it, and then moves ahead into his future." -me

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