Implementing Planescape Faction Abilities?

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Sarmanos
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Implementing Planescape Faction Abilities?

Post by Sarmanos » Thu Sep 15, 2005 12:51 pm

Ok, I heard CODI was working on something like this but I figure I'll be dead before that is finished. Most of the factions of Planescape have unique abilities and restrictions. Many of them are actually able to be implemented but they would have to be done so on a CoPaP-wide scale and it would have to be in a way that doesn't involve Race or Classes.

Some abilities technically defy the CoPaP Articles (Bleak Cabal members are immune to a few mind affecting spells related to madness and chaos and also gain a benefit in saves against Psionics for example, this could be done with a item though) others would be hard or difficult to implement like The Fated translated to NWN terms I think would have access to all three Weapons Feats. It would have to be something adaptable though since a faction member not following the philosophy should be able to be removed and stripped of the benefits.

Yeah I know that doing all of them could be difficult if not impossible.(Te Dustman's Dead Truce that keeps any undead from attacking them unless attacked first would be hard to implement I'm sure). But I would like to at least try since the factions are integral to the Planescape setting.

Final Shinryuu
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Post by Final Shinryuu » Thu Sep 15, 2005 1:49 pm

Agreed, this is a very important definer of the planescape setting, the Factions are one of the major things that give the setting it's look and feel.

Anyone who has read the Planescape Campaign setting realises how important these factions are, they are one of the defining attributes of a character or NPC, along with race, class, ect.

Even if we can only kludge these in, it'll go a long way towards making the planar settings feel more unique, and different from the Primes. It also gives a wide set of guidelines for portraying NPC's, having them associated with various factions that hold specific beliefs.

slave.of.emotions
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Post by slave.of.emotions » Thu Sep 15, 2005 2:29 pm

Well the player planscape manual even says that planar characters have to choose a faction at creation, along with they alingment, this shows enought how important they are in planescape.

Perhaps the world leaders could make a own list of abilities that can be made by using standart NWN ressources.



Dustman for example could perhaps get the turn undeath feat ? Or some similar spell that affects only undead.
And i believe it should be something of similar power for evryone... it would be silly if someone joins a certain faction only for they abilities.
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Orleron
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Post by Orleron » Thu Sep 15, 2005 4:02 pm

I don't support kludges, but there are a lot of things you can do by adding abilities to PC Hides with scripts. Feats and spells can be added pretty easily, AFAIK. But the Planescape worlds would need to get together and decide which abilities would go with each faction, and then implement the scripts that give out those abilities. You'd probably also have to designate some form of system that enforces the abilities. If the abilities were simply feats or spells added to hides, it would automatically be CoPaP-wide.

Also, I wouldn't wait for CODI to finish anything. NWN is likely to be 20 years dead by the time they get anything substantial out there as far as mods or systems.
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Sarmanos
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Post by Sarmanos » Thu Sep 15, 2005 4:47 pm

Spells are one thing but the feats you can add to a hide are limited by the toolset and most of the toolset Bonus Feats aren't useful to factions. Another thing of course is that someone still has to code it or it will only remain a thread on the boards. If someone does know a way to add non-toolset feats to hides or PCs without autobicing them permanently though then that'd be good.

Final Shinryuu
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Post by Final Shinryuu » Thu Sep 15, 2005 6:17 pm

Probably the simplist way to do it would be to try and find an NWN spell that would make sense for each faction, and add it to a plot token item, and have DM's give that token to faction members.
That way the factions are simple to implement, easy to monitor, and easy to revoke if a player acts out of line with their faction.
Problem is, many of the faction abilities don't translate easily to spells.

Some I'd suggest: the Dustman's Dead Pact - In Planescape, this represents their close association with undead, and makes undead not attack the Dustman as long as the Dustman does not attack, or aid a creature to harm the undead.
For CoPaP, we could stick Animate Dead 1/day on a faction token item, representing this same pact.

I know it really is less accurate than, say, scripting special powers for each, but this way would be far simpler and quicker.

If everyone else likes this idea, I'd be happy to make all the tokens, I have the Planescape Campaign Setting to refer to for the faction powers, and would convert them to similar spells as best as I could.

Sarmanos
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Post by Sarmanos » Thu Sep 15, 2005 7:45 pm

I'll work on some samples and post them up later.

Sarmanos
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Post by Sarmanos » Thu Sep 15, 2005 8:46 pm

Here's what I come up with so far:

Athar

Immune to the following spells:
Bestow Curse
Hammer of the Gods
Word of Faith

Item Desc: The Athar and their strong belief that the gods aren't divine at all prevents certain divine spells from affecting them.

Bleak Cabal

Immune to the following spells:
Confusion
Feeblemind
Tasha's Hideous Laughter

Saving Throw Bonus: Mind Affecting +2

Item Desc:The Bleak Cabal are considered mad by most and so they are immune to spells causing madness or insanity. They also seem to harbor a resistance towards spells and abilities that affect the mind.

Doomguard

Bonus Feat:Cleave
Bonus Feat:Power Attack
Bonus Feat:Weapon Prof (martial)

Item Desc: Doomguard members are always trained thoroughly in the use of martial weapons and their militaristic outlook affords them special training.

Dustmen

Control Undead(13) (2 Uses/Day)

Item Desc:The Dustman have a pact with the undead that allows the Dustman to attempt to recruit the undead every so often to aid them.

Fraternity of Order

Skill Bonus: Use Magic Device +10

Item Desc: After working at their chosen profession for so long the Guvners get attuned to the workings of the multiverse and gain the ability to use any magic device with great skill.

(OOC:For Guvners who have 7 levels in one class)

Free League

Saving Throw Bonus: Mind Affecting (+3)

Item Desc:Members of the Indeps are very stubborn and hard to persuade. In fact they are stubborn to the point that mental affecting spells have a harder time working on them.

Harmonium

Cast Spell: Charm Person(10) (1 Use/Day)

Item Desc:Harmonium members have very fierce and dedicated beliefs to their faction and their ways. They are so persuasive that some can't help but be taken in by their ways if for a short time.

Mercykillers

RP Ability

Item Desc: The Mercykillers are stalwart and unrelenting in their pursuit of justice. On special occasions they can detect one lie per day.

(OOC: Ability dependant upon DM)

Revolutionary League

RP Ability

Item Desc:The Anarchists are able to pass themselves off as a member of any other faction with great accuracy without being detected. While they don't gain faction powers from such a thing they can possibly learn things that only members of a specific faction could.

Society of Sensation

Bonus Feat: Alertness
Darkvision
Saving Throw Bonus: Poison(+1)

Item Desc:The Sensates highly attuned senses allow them to see in the dark and due to their many experiences have a slight resistance to poisons.

Sign of One

Cast Spell: See Invisibility(3) (1 Use/Day)
Saving Throw Bonus: Specific: Will(+3)

Item Desc:Members of the Sign of One believe they are the center of the multiverse. They are harder to fool with illusions and spells that try to defeat their will since they believe they are the ultimate source of each.

The Fated

Bonus Feat:Weapon Prof (simple)
Bonus Feat:Weapon Prof (martial)
Bonus Feat:Weapon Prof (exotic)

Item Desc:Members of the Fated believe in taking care of yourself. They have trained themselves to be able to use any weapon so they can remain self-sufficient.

Transcendant Order

Bonus Feat:Alertness
Bonus Feat:Dodge
Bonus Feat:Mobility

Item Desc:Able to act decisively on pure instinct and honing of mind and body. The Ciphers are capable of acting upon anything they need to at a moments notice.

Xaositects

RP Ability
Cast Spell: Confusion(5) (1 Use/Day)

Item Desc:The Xaositects are able to call upon the power of chaos and speak in reverse. This sounds like incomprehensible babble to most though and can sometimes cause utter chaos.

I'll take any suggestions or possible nerfings/ubering of tokens. They all take the form of a ring unless all they do is cast a spell in which case they are a Misc. Small.

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Post by Apandapion » Thu Sep 15, 2005 9:48 pm

I've never seen any real evidence that darkvision does anything, so maybe the society of sensation should get uses of ultravision per day?

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Post by teleri » Fri Sep 16, 2005 1:37 am

The only issue I see here is that these are reflective of the 3rd edition planescape rules which IMHO are complete crap. The rules for the 2nd edition would I elieve translate a bit better...

dustmen for an example could have a 3/ day invis to undead, the fated could get all prof as class prof, etc... this would be in the end I believe a better end solution.
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Sarmanos
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Post by Sarmanos » Fri Sep 16, 2005 1:58 am

I did base all the powers off 2nd edition but some would require some CoPaP-wide scripts that someone will have to do. The items right now aren't perfect but I don't see any problem using them until someone can be found to do all the heavy stuff.

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Post by Arkonswrath » Sat Sep 17, 2005 1:14 am

Correction on the Darkvision statement... have someone cast darkness around you without you having darkvision and see how well you hit things, then have someone cast it whie you have darkvision on and see how well you it things. Only the actual visual affect is disabled somehow, the actual affect is still there.

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Post by Sarmanos » Sat Sep 17, 2005 2:59 am

When I made these I didn't even glance at 3rd Edition material. Everything here is basically the way I felt I could best adapt their powers without any complicated scripts.

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Post by slave.of.emotions » Sat Sep 17, 2005 8:28 am

Arkonswrath wrote:Correction on the Darkvision statement... have someone cast darkness around you without you having darkvision and see how well you hit things, then have someone cast it whie you have darkvision on and see how well you it things. Only the actual visual affect is disabled somehow, the actual affect is still there.
I think you mean Ultravision :)
Darkvision works on some cards better on others less,its supposed to make a character see better in non-magical darkness.
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Re: Implementing Planescape Faction Abilities?

Post by szabot » Sat Sep 17, 2005 11:55 am

Sarmanos wrote:(The Dustman's Dead Truce that keeps any undead from attacking them unless attacked first would be hard to implement I'm sure).
I don't know anything about scripting and coding and all that, but iirc animals on Avlis do not attack druids (and maybe rangers, too) unless attacked first. So maybe there is something that would actually be easy to do to make undead nonhostile to Dustmen.

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Post by teleri » Sun Sep 18, 2005 12:05 am

it would require all the undead to be in a specific faction with a specific relationship to the faction that the dustman are a part of.
Cheers,
teleri

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Post by Apandapion » Sun Sep 18, 2005 5:57 pm

Arkonswrath wrote:Correction on the Darkvision statement... have someone cast darkness around you without you having darkvision and see how well you hit things, then have someone cast it whie you have darkvision on and see how well you it things. Only the actual visual affect is disabled somehow, the actual affect is still there.
I wasn't aware that darkvision canceled darkness, but then again my character practically lives under the influence of ultravision, so darkness doesn't mean a whole lot to me.

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Post by slave.of.emotions » Sun Sep 18, 2005 6:07 pm

Apandapion wrote:
Arkonswrath wrote:Correction on the Darkvision statement... have someone cast darkness around you without you having darkvision and see how well you hit things, then have someone cast it whie you have darkvision on and see how well you it things. Only the actual visual affect is disabled somehow, the actual affect is still there.
I wasn't aware that darkvision canceled darkness, but then again my character practically lives under the influence of ultravision, so darkness doesn't mean a whole lot to me.
it does not... i am sure of it
after all methael was once a tiefling with darkness ability
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Post by Orleron » Thu Sep 22, 2005 3:57 pm

If you talk to Kinarr, he knows how to put practically any spell or feat onto a PC hide item because he is doing this for Avlis in one of its plots.

I don't recommend making tokens that are carried around, mainly because it's a kludge and it's too exploitable. Try to put all the abilities on hides.
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Post by slave.of.emotions » Thu Sep 22, 2005 4:06 pm

I will try ask him, i have got time currently and not much to do so if its not something over my abilities i could perhaps code it.... *crosses fingers*
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Post by slave.of.emotions » Thu Sep 22, 2005 4:40 pm

What i could do currently on my own is something similar to the deity conversations:

Talking with a NPC giving him the option to join if he accepts the hide gets cleared of possible previous effects from joining previously another faction.
Then adding to the current hide effects that would apply for current faction NPC recruit.

((edit: i just would need someone to check my spelling and gramma or write the convos himself :) ))
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Post by Jonezie » Thu Sep 22, 2005 8:54 pm

teleri wrote:it would require all the undead to be in a specific faction with a specific relationship to the faction that the dustman are a part of.
Not quite. It's possible to build in a workaround, but you'd have to edit the standard OnPercieve event script. Basically, you add some code that checks for the race of the caller, and the faction of the percieved creature. If it's an undead creature percieving a 'Dustman', then you set the creature to be non-hostile. This would then work for all undead, except custom ones using a non-standard OnPercieve script (rather rare, I would imagine)

The only real issue I can see would be with lag - OnPercieve gets called A LOT. You'd probably want to check it over with the profiler before implementing anything in a live mod.

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Post by teleri » Fri Sep 23, 2005 1:47 pm

Humm I hadn't thought of that Jonzie could it be called in a psudo-heartbeat on-percieve onpercieve check variable if no variable then get and set variable variety...
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Post by slave.of.emotions » Wed Sep 28, 2005 3:34 pm

I was working today on some scripts that add abilities to the hide based on the list posted by Sarmanos. Basicaly they are simple simple scripts that are called from a conversation and add abilities to the current hide, i have those scripts done so far but came to 2 issues:

1. I could not make Black Cabal immune to the spell Tasha's Hideous laugher since there is no constant for that spell in the toolset.

2. Fraternity of Order ; UMD is without any use for characters that dont have UMD as class skill and at least 1 skill point.

3. Harmonium: Charm Person does not work on planar characters since they have the racial type Outsider (Tieflings,Aasimars and Outlands Planar Races), Charm Monster might be a better choice here.

Right now i need to make a script that removes all faction abilities from hides so that characters dont benefit from multiple faction abilities. And another that checks for those abilities so that people can not change easy from one faction to another, a DM would need to clear with a wand (that i want to make as well) the previous ablities before they can switch. This way DMs can keep track of people that left or want to leave a faction.

Any thoughs ?
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Post by Jonezie » Mon Oct 24, 2005 2:24 am

slave.of.emotions wrote:1. I could not make Black Cabal immune to the spell Tasha's Hideous laugher since there is no constant for that spell in the toolset.
I seem to have a constant for it - SPELL_TASHAS_HIDEOUS_LAUGHTER. Otherwise, use 457, which is it's number in spells.2da.

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